Fellow travelers please assist

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Evan
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Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor Evan » wo 23 sep, 2015 12:22

Dear all,

Excuse me for my English, it will be much easier for me to explain my situation.

I have been facing a lot of troubles riding my bike over 25-30km without experiencing pain in the perineum area, for quite some time now. I own a CUBE town, 62 size and I am about 2 meters, 90 kilos.

I have been to different bike shops, measured my hip size, checked the distances of the saddle from the steering, etc. Everything looks alright. As for different saddles, I have tried a bunch of them, decided to buy a new one some time ago (Respiro Moderate Selle Royal) but not the outcome I would like.

My last option is to buy a Brooks saddle, which I have heard can make a difference in the long run and if this doesn't go well then maybe it's the bike?? I am a bit stuck, even sad that I cannot explore the bike travels that I want to do because of this awkward situation.

I would really appreciate any feedback from your expertise.

Kind regards,

Evan
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EnriceV
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A brooks imperial saddle features a cut-out that in many cases takes the pressure of the perineum indeed. However the Respiro series do feature the same pressure-free area. A brooks will adapt to your bone structure and give better support, but it will probably not be significantly better from a pressure relief point of view.

Do you feel the pain is related to pressure/fricition or rather to your position on the bike? Have you been able to ride without pain in the past, and if so, what are the variables that might have changed? Do you only feel pain or does your skin show any irritation as well? Or you wearing bib shorts? .... The more info, the more likely somebody will be able to relate to his/hers experiences.

All those bike fitting systems rely on the fact that most people have very similar anatomy. That is less likely than has been thought in the past, and even if it would, there will always be people for which the general rules don't apply.

(btw: for me the brooks imperial saddles work very well, but I mainly suffered from mild numbness rather then real pain)
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Evan
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Re: Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor Evan » wo 23 sep, 2015 19:58

EnriceV schreef:A brooks imperial saddle features a cut-out that in many cases takes the pressure of the perineum indeed. However the Respiro series do feature the same pressure-free area. A brooks will adapt to your bone structure and give better support, but it will probably not be significantly better from a pressure relief point of view.

Do you feel the pain is related to pressure/fricition or rather to your position on the bike? Have you been able to ride without pain in the past, and if so, what are the variables that might have changed? Do you only feel pain or does your skin show any irritation as well? Or you wearing bib shorts? .... The more info, the more likely somebody will be able to relate to his/hers experiences.

All those bike fitting systems rely on the fact that most people have very similar anatomy. That is less likely than has been thought in the past, and even if it would, there will always be people for which the general rules don't apply.

(btw: for me the brooks imperial saddles work very well, but I mainly suffered from mild numbness rather then real pain)
Thanks for your response EnriceV. I am constantly changing positions on the bike, so I believe it's related to pressure. I always had this issue (only after 30 km biking). I am wearing the proper gear. As for my skin, its a long way down so I haven't tried to check that yet :P

May I ask if you guys have a gathering so maybe one of you can spot the for example, wrong position, frame size or sth?

PS: I ve sent already an email to Brooks, asking which saddle could fit me more.
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EnriceV
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Evan schreef:I always had this issue (only after 30 km biking). I am wearing the proper gear. As for my skin, its a long way down so I haven't tried to check that yet :P

May I ask if you guys have a gathering so maybe one of you can spot the for example, wrong position, frame size or sth?

PS: I ve sent already an email to Brooks, asking which saddle could fit me more.
The "wereldfietser" organises quite a lot of activities which you can easily find under "activiteiten" in the top menu.

First thing: have you tried without the cycling shorts? The padding can do a lot of good, but it can also make things worse. So have a try with whatever you were on a daily basis.(even without padding most people can ride 1-2 hours without experiencing discomfort)

Ask somebody to ride behind you: your pelvis should stay almost stationairy. If your saddle is positioned to high, your legs are "to short" and your body will compensate by tilting the pelvis thus creating friction and increased pressure.

How far you lean forward has everything to do with how much force your legs deliver to the pedals. If you ride relatively slow you should have a quite upright position, if you ride fast you can choose a more stretched out "aero" position. The increased pressure that arises by having a more "aero" postion is compensated by the fact that pushing hard on the pedals decreases the weight on the saddle. So the pressure you are experiencing might also mean that your handlebars are to low in relation to your legpower.

If getting to a meeting is difficult you can always try to have some pictures made while cycling.
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Evan
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Re: Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor Evan » do 24 sep, 2015 20:32

Hi again :D


1) I ve checked the gathering this weekend but most likely I am not going to make it. Hopefully next time.

2) I have tried it yes, worst result.

3) I don't have experienced people riding with me unfortunately, although I can tell that the saddle is parallel to the ground.

4) My average speed when touring is 15-16 km, so I guess slow. That is because I don't want to sweat. So my position is moderate, sometimes almost vertical for a change (when vertical, my fingers just reach the handlebars, when riding moderate (60 degrees) I can reach them perfectly.

I will try to send the photos asap. On the meantime, I ordered the Brooks Flyer Imperial, as suggested by Brooks. Let's see..

Thanks again,

Evan
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Evan
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Re: Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor Evan » wo 30 sep, 2015 20:34

Hello again!

I came up with some photos. Any comments?

Afbeelding
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Evan
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Re: Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor Evan » wo 30 sep, 2015 20:49

Afbeelding

Afbeelding
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sjacka
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Your top tube seems short > little pressure on your hands much pressure on your bottom,
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Grum
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Re: Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor Grum » wo 30 sep, 2015 21:00

Just an idea.. spend a few min and watch this video. It is focused on racing, but gives a very good idea on what to watch out for and what are the consequences of a specific position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxNznrlRXGU
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Grum
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Re: Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor Grum » wo 30 sep, 2015 21:02

And I agree with Sjacka... you've grown out of this bike it seems.. :D
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Evan
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Re: Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor Evan » do 01 okt, 2015 20:19

Grum schreef:And I agree with Sjacka... you've grown out of this bike it seems.. :D
Thank your for your answers Grum and Sjacka.

I watched the video; it was informative but as it is mentioned, I will probably need some bike store where I can be given the proper attention in order to find which bike fits me. Does anybody know such a professional (ideally for touring bikes) store?

In the meantime, could stuurbochten or opzetsturen make a difference? Or do I definitely need a new bike?
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EnriceV
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Your bike is indeed very short. It also seems like you sit very far at the rear end of your saddle. (Ideally your bottom is on the saddle and not "hanging out")

For now, with this bike, try to maximize your effective distance between saddle and handlebars. You can probably slide the saddle further back (this may put your legs in a less favorable position power-wise, but hey, your looking for comfort). You could get an ahead extender and a longer stem, but cheaper is to find a set of bar ends. (decathlon?) These can move the point where your hands are about 5 cm forward without much fuss. What you actually want is that your back is in a straight line. So your pelvis, your spine and your shoulders are lined up. The photographs show that your are now more in a "bow" position. It is hard to guess whether this is the cause of your experienced pressure problems, but it might very well be.

I agree that your bike isn't ideal. However since you clearly suffer from one specific problem, I think it would be wise to experiment with this bike to get a good insight in which position works for you, so if you spent the money on a new bike you at least know it's going to work.
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Grum
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Re: Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor Grum » do 01 okt, 2015 21:51

I can recommend http://www.vakantiefietser.nl/ in Amsterdam.

Specialized in trekking bikes and friendly staff. Their site is also quite informative. Some sections are available in English..
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Evan
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Re: Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor Evan » za 03 okt, 2015 19:00

Grum schreef:I can recommend http://www.vakantiefietser.nl/ in Amsterdam.

Specialized in trekking bikes and friendly staff. Their site is also quite informative. Some sections are available in English..
Thank you Grum. I will definitely visit it. I also contacted Santos to make an appointment and have a look.
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Evan
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Re: Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor Evan » za 03 okt, 2015 19:15

EnriceV schreef:Your bike is indeed very short. It also seems like you sit very far at the rear end of your saddle. (Ideally your bottom is on the saddle and not "hanging out")

For now, with this bike, try to maximize your effective distance between saddle and handlebars. You can probably slide the saddle further back (this may put your legs in a less favorable position power-wise, but hey, your looking for comfort). You could get an ahead extender and a longer stem, but cheaper is to find a set of bar ends. (decathlon?) These can move the point where your hands are about 5 cm forward without much fuss. What you actually want is that your back is in a straight line. So your pelvis, your spine and your shoulders are lined up. The photographs show that your are now more in a "bow" position. It is hard to guess whether this is the cause of your experienced pressure problems, but it might very well be.

I agree that your bike isn't ideal. However since you clearly suffer from one specific problem, I think it would be wise to experiment with this bike to get a good insight in which position works for you, so if you spent the money on a new bike you at least know it's going to work.
Hi EnriceV and thanks again for the detailed response.

I purchased one week ago the Brooks Flyer Imperial and I ve made about 200 km. I feel no pain at my perineum. On the other hand my bottom bones really hurt but this is something that everyone said will pass.

Nevertheless, having the right bike is important, especially if I want to make the long trips I have dreamed of. So I want to ask you something; when all of you say that the bike seems short, do you mean the "bovenbuislengte"? Is this the part of geometry where I need to put my most attention?
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WimB
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Re: Fellow travelers please assist

Berichtdoor WimB » za 03 okt, 2015 21:45

Place another a picture with one of the pedals in the lower position.
Your arms should not be stretched. The elbow must be a nod. Thus it can absorb shocks.
It seems that this bike is too small.
Sorry Google translate.
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EnriceV
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Evan schreef: Nevertheless, having the right bike is important, especially if I want to make the long trips I have dreamed of. So I want to ask you something; when all of you say that the bike seems short, do you mean the "bovenbuislengte"? Is this the part of geometry where I need to put my most attention?
Yes, in English it toptube length (look for "effective toptube lengthe" in geometry tables). It can be slightly adjusted by using a longer/shorter stem, but still it is, for most people, the dictating measure for framesize selection. In your upright position you don't need a very long toptube (some brands like surly of vsf are notorios for their relatively long toptubes), but this frame seems just to short.
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